Pastors and staff, I need your help. Below are some questions my students would like to ask you regarding job searches. Would you take a few minutes and give us your input on one or more of these questions?
- Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
- What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
- What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
- Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?
- The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
Please encourage other pastors to give us input as well. On behalf of my students, thanks for your responses!
1. I see no problem with sending out your resume, especially if you are a graduating seminarian. Use the school’s resume service when available and state convention services. Prayerfully seek wisdom on making it available. Dr. Lawless’ article “10 THINGS PASTORS SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT SAYING” – see #7, speaks to this as well.
2. One of the most helpful requests I made was for financial report and constitution and/or bylaws.
3. DO NOT GO! Wait on the Lord to unify your hearts. Ministry will be difficult no matter how great the church, and you need your wife fully convinced of God’s call.
4. Thankfully, I have not…by God’s grace.
5. The best advice on this is issue was from a seminary professor before graduation. He said to discuss with your wife what the reasonably minimum salary was for your family to live. Then when you get to the point of discussing salary, you know whether or not it works for you. Now just because the numbers may not work, this doesn’t mean you don’t go. However, you have a responsibility as provider. Be clear and upfront woth the committee, and don’t wait until they are getting ready to vote before addressing the issue.
I’m sure there will be far more seasoned answers than mine. Thanks for the opportunity to share my experience.
Thanks, Chris!
1. Is there a compelling reason not to? I would not send out resumes to random churches but do enough research to send to churches you are mostly aligned with.
2. How much debt does the church carry? I accepted a call and later found out the church was $14M in debt. Rookie mistake. If I could ask a second it is what is the history of moral failures known and unknown by the congregation.
3. No. Do not go if your spouse does not feel the call.
4. I don’t feel I’ve erred in accepting any calls, however, I have erred in not fully investigating the leadership culture, staff history, and financial mismanagement. Go in with eyes wide open. Every church has issues, so try to find out the issues before you move.
5. If you can’t properly support your family become bivocational, explain your situation, or don’t accept the call. I’ve been offered paltry salary and nearly non existent health benefits by churches who easily could afford more. They choose to see staff not as shepherds or stewards but slaves. Beware. However, if a church can’t afford more and you feel called then go and be a missionary.
Thanks, Bill.
1. Send out resumes… God also gave us common sense!
2. ASk for previous pastor’s information and contact him… it is always good to get another opinion about the church from someone who served there. If you get close to the end as a candidate also speak to the DOM and hopefully he will be brutally honest about the situation.
3. A wise man once told me, “How can God call one and not the other?” If God calls you to a church He will also warm your wife’s heart up to that church. Please heed my advice LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE because if you are stubborn and bullheaded like me sometimes God will use her to get through to me.
4. I would not say I made a mistake in going but I did learn to do your homework upfront. The church I pastored thought they wanted someone Bi-vocational because that’s what they could afford but demanded later for me to move to the area and shepherd them although it was 1.5 hours from Seminary and would have been a 3 hour drive one way for my wife. They had no idea what they were getting and really neither did I because my heart is shepherding and it is impossible to do that from 1.5 hours away.
5. Be upfront and honest about the situation but this is tricky. DO NOT mention on your first phone call or visit or you will seem greedy but also do not wait until the very last minute either when they have grown fond of you and your wife and children have grown fond of them! It’s a fine line that must be balanced.
Thanks, David.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
ANS: It is not an either/or. Send resumes and trust God. I do recommend being selective about where you send them. Either send directly to churches that have posted needs after you do some research on them or to men in convention/association leadership who know you and whom you trust.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
ANS: I wish I would have asked more about their understanding of the lines of authority and responsibility between pastors, elders, deacons, and the congregation.
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
ANS: Don’t go until you work that out. The Pauline qualifications for a pastor seem to make it clear that you need to have your house in order before you accept the call to pastor.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church?
ANS: By God’s grace, no.
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
ANS: You may be greedy. Consider your heart and your desired standard of living and be sure that is not the problem. If it is a matter of being able to provide for your family at the level you believe is God-honoring, then tell that to the search committee. Honesty in this entire process is vital.
Thanks, Don.
These are such good questions, Dr. Lawless.
1. The irony is all 3 ministry positions I’ve had were at churches I didn’t send my resume to, they were referred by mutual connections. But we have placement services for a reason, to help connect candidates and churches. It’s ok in my opinion to send resumes because the best case is it can lead to a position. It can also lead to interviews where you may not be called but can get experience dealing with a committee for when you do land at the church God’s called you to. The biggest thing when sending out resumes is not to let the rejection letters get to you.
2. Best questions I’ve not asked before accepting an assignment: “What is the church’s plan to pay off their bad debt?” (There wasn’t one, they were paying minimum payments on a balloon note) or “What is the vision God has given people here for the church?” – Too often churches are content to exist, and you can be a visionary leader but you need to know if they’re just existing or heading somewhere. The worst question you can ask during the interview process is the question you don’t ask. You need to interview them as much as they are you. This is where you’re possibly moving your family. It will impact your spouse and your kids as much (if not more) than it’ll impact you.
3. Unless God changes her heart and mind, He hasn’t called you there. It’s that simple. You can play spiritual and claim Ephesians 5 but if your family and your spouse are miserable your ministry will tank. Your family matters more than your pursuit of a ministry position, the church can find another pastor but your family can’t find another dad and your spouse another husband. But bathe it in prayer and make sure your spouse is as well. Sometimes it’s the fear of moving or the anxiety of leaving friends. Other times God uses your spouse as a first line of defense for you to know it’s a dumpster fire.
4. At all 3 stops I’ve had the moment of “Man I wish I’d know that in the interview process.” But I’ve also become convinced that God doesn’t let us see or know everything before we step out in faith to follow Him. If we knew it all, we’d find 100 reasons not to trust Him. The last place we served was very painful towards the end, to the point I was willing to walk away from vocational ministry because of the pastor I served under. But God showed us through all of that even bad situations aren’t necessarily outside of His will. That said, pray pray pray and make sure that the Lord is calling you, not your in-laws or your ambition.
5. Step back and pray first before talking to the committee. A pastor should be able to provide for his family. Maybe they don’t know how the “market” has changed over the years, or aren’t familiar with the cost of living in their area, or the church realistically can’t afford more. They’re still around, but the churches who “starve the pastor to keep him humble” are few and far between. Do your own research too. Is the package they’re offering consistent with the cost of living? In rural Tennessee cost of living is much less than in South Florida. So a “smaller salary” may be in line with community demographics. Don’t ever say yes to a church for a bigger paycheck, and don’t automatically say no because of a smaller one. Once you’ve prayed and sought God’s wisdom, be honest with the committee about your concerns. Many times they’re operating in the dark about the reality of ministry salary and living, especially if your family plans to be single income. Gideon laid our fleeces to see what God was up to, and I think you can do something like that when pursuing a ministry position.
Great Questions…
1. My Answer is “Both-And” Trust God, Send out Resumes, Do Your Church Research and Network with those who know you well for recommendations to ministry opportunities.
2. What Bible Based Studies has this Committee done together in preparation for this Search task ?
3. Back up the Truck. Do whatever it takes to get on the same page regarding your Call as a couple to ministry. Seek Godly Counsel like a Christian Professor, Meet with your Pastor and wife, Do not move forward until you are in agreement on God’s Call, Your Relationship Priories and then answer this question: What is a husband’s first priorities ?
4. Lol !!! We are human. And if you’re a man, you’re going to make mistakes; just ask the woman next to you. Grab some duct tape and Sail On !!! Humor and a Vibrant Prayer life will enable you to survive the mistakes…or those difficult circumstances God uses to transform you into the Image of His Son.
5. The ‘ox’ is worthy of his work. Have you studied their budget for priorities ? Do you presently have a budget that you keep with discipline. Can you initially live on what is being offered ? How are your negotiating skills ? Are they willing to create a ‘Tiered Salary’ based upon time that considers time in ministry either before this church….or as you serve this church ? ie. planned raises based upon something measurable and specific.
Thank you Dr. Lawless for your Daily lists. I love lists and they give me things to discuss with my husband, a pastor, about ministry, etc. I pray about things on the lists that God will reveal to me areas of weakness and praise God when I feel confirmed that we are moving in the right direction. I am answering these questions because I am a pastor’s wife and we are a team. I am encouraging him to answer too!
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry? Both! You never know how God is going to move to get you where He wants you to be.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team? What are your strengthens and weaknesses as a church?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church? As a pastor’s wive, we must be on the same page with our calling to a church or ministry. I am always shocked that a pastor would even consider going somewhere that his wife wasn’t in complete agreement with. We have an agreement that we must both be in complete peace about going or we don’t. We are both willing to be upfront, honest and prayerful about it. Your ministry will not flourish if your wife is not on board.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? No. We are currently seeking the Lord for a new ministry. We have stopped the process on several churches because after interviewing several times, we knew that the churches would not be a good fit. It is not a job, but a calling. There must be complete peace or you should continue in prayer until you get peace and direction. He always gives it!
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? Know what you need before you go in and then pray that God will give you wisdom about asking for more. If you are educated and serious about knowing your budget, then you can expect God to help you work out the salary issues.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry? Sending resumes are fine, I have found if you can send it through a trusted connection with the church or through someone who has a trusted connection is best.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church? Pray and ask God to give you both confirmation on the call. Whether the stated expectation is clear or not, you are both being called at some level.
3. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? Thankfully no.
4. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? This is where State Conventions, Associations and Lifeway can really help. Information is our friend. These groups provide helpful information to search committees about what the norms are in different ministry contexts. Many committees that I worked with as a consultant at the State Convention as now as a pastor again may not have the information they need to present a fair package. These resources above can help with that so that you don’t have to be the one “negotiating”. Also, your ministry references can be an advocate as well.
So many great answers already; but I’ll add my 2 cents’ worth:
#1: FIrst pray. If the Lord leads you to respond to an opportunity, do it. If He impresses upon you that you should wait, wait. There’s probably no one right answer.
#2: Will I get feedback? By whom? How often? Is there some type of objective criteria that will be used? Also, I’d like to know under what circumstances the previous pastor left or is leaving–be prepared for evasion on that one.
#3: You and your wife will have to work this out. Once again, a LOT of prayer is indicated. If she digs in her heels, DON’T go.
#4: Thankfully, I have not had the opportunity to make that mistake. HOWEVER, I served on a couple committees that called men who were not successful. We took that as the church’s time to be part of the process of building a pastor into what he would become.
#5: Be honest with them about your needs. Do you currently have a mortgage, car loans, college loans? All these things should be known up front. If they expect you to be bi-vocational, how many hours per week do they expect you to serve? How many services…?
1. I agree with the replies so far. There is nothing wrong with sending resumes. You are trusting God that He will lead those churches and their committee members to the right candidates. God can always choose to do the amazing, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do the mundane. I also agree that you shouldn’t scatter your resume like a shotgun blast, but should do your homework and send your resume strategically. If you have a relationship with your association or convention leaders, they can also point you towards churches that may be a match for your skills and vision.
2. I don’t know of any one question that sticks out in my mind, but I think it is very important to try and figure out if the pastor and/or committee represent the desires and direction of the church as a whole. Ask if any church surveys have been done. Speaking with the former minister might be helpful in this area as well. I think this is also the answer I’d give to question 4. The only times I’ve truly struggled in ministry have come when the expectations of the committee didn’t match those of the church family.
3. I’ve learned from many wise counselors over the years, including Dr. Lawless, that you should ALWAYS consider a lack of spousal agreement a giant STOP sign! Both of you should pray until you agree, and if your spouse’s heart does not change, consider it a warning and do not proceed.
4. See answer 2 above.
5. Again, I agree with the answers already given. Salary and Compensation Guides from Guidestone and your state convention are probably one of the best ways to address this.
#1–yes to both; #2–can I have the phone numbers of the last two pastors?; #3–don’t do it; #5 might ask for DOM to help in SBC church or present Guidestone’s compensation study as a basis for the conversation. I’ve trusted the Holy Spirit to lead them
1. Send resumes but do your research to learn what you can about the church. Keep track of where you have sent them and what stuck out to you or what motivation (hopefully biblical/Spirit led) you had to send the initial resume.
2. Can you tell me about the last 3 pastors and what their reasons for leaving were?
3. Don’t go yet IF your wife isn’t willing or open to loving a new church family or making a new community her home. Bottom line…pray together until God makes it clear to both of you. Don’t pressure her to get there.
4. That’s a great question and hard to answer. Knowing what I know now I would not have accepted the call to my first church. I would have asked a lot more questions (about everything). My advice, don’t feel pressure in asking hard questions that might lead to not being extended a call. Keep trusting God in the whole process not just in getting to the point of moving forward with a search committee.
5. First, know your budget and what you need. Secondly, be willing to talk about it with a search team. You will find out three basic possibilities:
a) the church is willing to pay more and offers to do so or has a conversation about what increases will look like.
b) the church is willing to pay more but is unable due to their budget
c) the church is unwilling whether they are able to or not
I think you can prayerfully work with the first two scenarios.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry? Yes, absolutely send out resumes, unless they specify no resumes. Even better, if you have someone who would be willing to recommend you and send your resume with a cover letter attached. Utilize the resources of seminaries and other websites.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team? If my wife doesn’t show up for church two weeks in a row, what would be the reaction of the people?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church? Don’t go, then spend some time talking and praying with your wife about why you are looking at moving.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? No. Not all of them turned out as I hoped, but all of them have been learning experiences to help with future assignments.
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? Ask for copies of the church budget from the past several years and see if they are offering something reasonably comparable to what they’ve been paying, then be honest about your needs.
Thanks, Tony.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
‘Sending out resumes’ is not the opposite of ‘trusting that God will provide a place of ministry.’ In my opinion, the two are harnessed to one another.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
Are there specific staffing/personnel issues that need to be addressed by the Deacons or Personnel Committee before the church votes on a Senior Pastor?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
Listen to her.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?
Despite a ‘sea of red flags’ I left an incredible to church in Georgia as Student Pastor to become the Lead Pastor of the church formerly known as the ROC in Richmond VA. I was fired 7 weeks later after inadvertently discovering financial corruption. Although I was perplexed, devastated, and hurt – I never once have thought of this part of my life as a ‘mistake.’ I am as convinced now as I was then, that sometimes the Lord calls Pastors to hard places.
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
Sometimes churches have a low-end and a high-end in mind when they present a package. If you feel as though it is too low for your family to manage, let them know. There is certainly nothing wrong with explaining the financial needs of your family.
1. I would be very selective about sending out resumes. Do your research on the church and staff.
2. Do I have the freedom to lead the ministry or am I trying to accomplish someone else’s agenda.
3. My wife and I have to be in total agreement about God’s call to a new place.
4. Make sure you spend significant time with the pastor. Does the committee, if the pastor is not involved, have the same vision for the position as the pastor? Make sure the position matches your gifts and abilities.
5. Have an idea of what is fair and reasonable for the position and know what you need to live on. If the process proceeds I believe you have to discuss the salary.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
YES. I have often heard a better alternative is to contact pastors who you trust to give your resume to a church that is looking. Pastor friends can also give you advice on churches that you might want to avoid.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
What happened to the last person in my position? Did he leave on good or bad terms, why? (I know that’s two…they kinda go together)
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
I think if you are seeking the Lords direction together, then they will be on the same page about a call….however, if you don’t the support of your spouse, it could make for hard days in ministry.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?
n/a
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
Lifeway has a great resource to see the average salary even by location and budget size. (http://compstudy.lifeway.com/rangedreport/budget.do)
You could compare that and see where a salary fits and go from there.
I am a pastor who started vocational ministry rather late in life. I retired from the Air Force in 2004, accepted a full-time pastorate that lasted four years, earned my MDiv through NOBTS during my next pastorate, almost completed my DMin there, and after eight years moved to my current pastorate. All of this information is to say that the answers to the questions asked below come with various experiences.
1. I am an advocate of sending resumes. I sent my resume to our state office and my current pastorate had my resume for over a year before they called, and I am where I am. God used this time to prepare the church for me to come, and to prepare me as well. The church would not have known about me if not from receiving my resume from the state office. The other side of the coin is several churches contacted me and confusion did begin on some levels. Additionally, if one is serving in a pastorate, the more resumes sent out increases the chances that someone in the current church will hear about it and that can kill a pastor’s ministry. In the end, ask God, trust His leading, and by faith continue in what you do until you hear clearly from Him.
2. I asked the right questions. The first two churches were so far in denial that they lied in their responses to a few of the questions. My current pastorate was quite different. The answers I received were direct and truthful as best they knew. The issue was they did not know what they thought they knew. One of the search committee members recently apologized to me for being a part of the team that called me. He went on to say that he did not realize just how broken the church was in theology and in administration until I started asking questions and pointing to biblical perspectives. So, even asking the right questions may be, in all innocence, inaccurate. (Side note, the church is eager to grow and learn. This is refreshing!)
3. PRAY!!! Fasting together for God’s leading and joint understanding can be huge in moving together. The one piece of advice I would give is this – “if momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy!” God ordained that I am the spiritual head of the house under the direction of Jesus. My wife and I talk about all decisions, disagree on some, but we wait on any major difference until we have peace and unity on moving forward. No matter who is called to be a pastor, his spouse is an integral part of the ministry. Both of you need to be together on any move that affects the entire family.
4. No, although I did question some things as time went on! God has a plan and as I look back over time I see where His hand was on things from the beginning to the end. That is where faith comes in to follow obediently every step of the way.
5. Make sure your family is taken care of because no one else will. There is a tremendous difference between greed and taking care of the needs. A lack of funds will wear into a family as time goes on: kids wanting to get involved in sports and recreation that cost and puts a crimp on the budget; trying to save enough for a vacation (which I implore you to take!!!); and simply taking your wife out on a date night to a nice restaurant and maybe a hotel overnight. These things take money to do and the church should be able to take care of you. If they are unwilling now in the honeymoon phase to do that, it will only get worse as time goes on.
These perspectives are my personal perspectives. I hope they can encourage you as you move forward. Thank you for following God’s call to ministry. Remember, you are not alone. Not only is God with you, but you are in the company of others who heed to call. Stand firm on the Truth!
In response to today’s article…
1. Yes, send out resumes. It’s helpful if you have a reference or a connection who can get the resume to the search committee for you. Use your state convention resources to put your resume in their files, so it can be distributed.
I was looking for a Student Minister once and requested resumes from the SC Baptist Convention. I called a young man and gave him an overview of our church. He asked me how I got his resume and I told him. He responded , ” I told them to only give my resume out in large cities!” Please don’t place limits on God!
2. I try to ask a lot of questions, get a copy of their Constitution and By Laws. I asked the committee “Who does the pastor answer to?” They all said “The Deacons”….upon review of their by laws, that wasn’t true. The pastor answered to the Personnel Committee.
3. If your spouse is not in agreement, don’t go! Make sure you’re praying TOGETHER regarding any opportunity.
4. Not a mistake made personally, but I’ve seen many friends go to a church and regret it. I can’t stress the importance of communication, with God, your spouse, and the prospective church.
I will say that at my current church, their offer to me was in writing with vacation and sick leave as well as starting salary spelled out. No room for misunderstandings when it’s in writing.
5. Make sure that you consult with your CPA regarding tax implications. Also, communicate with the church that health insurance and expense reimbursements are not part of your salary. Some folks look at the budget and think you’re making 50k per year, but really you’re making 30k. Again, communicate with the committee your needs and expectations. In my current church, they were low in the salary area. I explained that I was making more at my current church and gave them a copy of my budget. I told them that if it was going to cause a problem or disunity to present me with the same amount I was making now, to take my name out of consideration. They called me and increased the offer and it was a unanimous vote to do so. I’ve been here for 8 years, and we’ve never closed out a year in the red!
I think it is great that students are asking these kinds of questions! Thanks for the opportunity to give input.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
Yes to both! I would suggest sending resumes only to churches that align with the candidate’s theology, denomination, etc. Mass sending is not very wise, in my opinion. Even as you are sending resumes, be content with God’s “yes” or “no” to each place you send one. Which means you will have to fight not to get discouraged when “rejection” letters arrive.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
How well do you believe the Pastor Search Team accurately represents the church as a whole? (Often the problems that arise shortly after a new pastor’s arrival are tied to a pastor search team that is not representative of the entire congregation, or even the majority of the congregation!)
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
Don’t go. To date (after 28 years of marriage and 25 years in full time ministry) I’ve always never regretted listening when the Lord was speaking through my wife.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?
Not when I have been thorough in researching the church, touching base with former pastors, and asking LOTS of questions!
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
Kind of depends. If you have examined cost of living in the area, examined the Lifeway Compensation study, and made sure you completely understand what they are offering in terms of salary, housing, insurance, SS offset (if applicable), etc and it still seems low….you are better off to deal with it up front. The last thing you should do is take the role knowing you cannot adequately provide for your family. That adds stress to you and your wife that will be detrimental down the road.
1. Both. God can use any number of resources to put you where He wants you.
2. None. I’ve asked them all. Don’t leave any question unanswered, and if they don’t want to answer a question, that is a red flag. Be sure to ask about potential landmines, current conflicts, and any skeletons in closets.
3. You are one flesh. God will not call only half of you. Don’t go anywhere your wife does not share your calling. If you think you are called, but she doesn’t, either you are wrong, or it isn’t time. Be patient, and trust your wife.
4. No. I did once go to a church that was not a good fit, but I believe it was God’s will for several reasons. For one thing, I needed to learn some things, and so did that church. God was also positioning me for the next phase of my ministry. Just seek Him and do the best you can. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s a mistake.
5. Tell them it’s low. Tell them what it should be. Negotiate. That isn’t greed (well, it could be, but only you know your heart); it’s stewardship and responsibility.
I appreciate that the pastors above counsel not to go if your wife is not behind the move. Here is a follow-up question. What about your children? It is often a big sacrifice for the children to leave a place where they might be comfortable and have friends. How much should the children’s perspective be determinative? This might be different depending on the age of the children. Mine are 8 and younger, but others reading might have older children. I would love to hear the pastors’ thoughts.
Great question about children. Pastors, what are your thought?
My wife and I have made significant moves with our children. One was to international missions with a 3 year old, 1 year old, and one on the way. The other was back to the states (not near immediate family) with a then 5 year old, 3 year old, 2 year old, and one on the way. From the outside perspective, people (even family…even believers who are family) will think you are nuts for uprooting your kids.
What is lost in a lot of practical questions is ultimately what is the Lord leading your family to do. You and your spouse are responsible for leading your family. Leading your children means absolutely hearing them, knowing them, and having the foresight to see how a move impacts them. If God says go, trust Him.
I would add one more thought/experience. My christian parents moved states (not ministry related) between my sophomore and junior years of high school and I was extremely angry with them and the whole situation for a good year. God used that move to call me to Himself and ultimately called me to ministry through that move. 17 years later, I praise God for that move, that at the time I viewed as a curse. All that to say, we can try to figure everything out perfectly for our children but we need to be obedient above all else. He who calls is faithful and trustworthy even when we can’t see it at the time.
1. I am in agreement with many who indicated yes to both – send resumes AND trust God will provide a place of ministry. I would add that we live according to the guiding of the Holy Spirit, and that is a dynamic state of being indeed. It requires trusting, asking, praying, introspection, repentance, and much more. Biblically, we see leaders in the early church seeking the discernment of others, mentors and co-laborers who would pray together and agree upon the way the Holy Spirit was leading them in various ministry opportunities before stepping out in faith and pursuing those callings.
In my experience, this means seeking guidance from mentors and colleagues. When I went into a season of transition and believed God was calling my family elsewhere, I provided my resume to a few key mentors who are trusted church leaders. They in turn shared my resume with potential ministry opportunities as they believed the Spirit was leading. I’ve also pushed my resume out broadly using various candidate placement services (slingshot, church staffing, vanderbloemen), primarily because they can be a resource for discovering potential ministry opportunities. Every actual ministry role the Lord called me to, however, came through the prayerful discernment and recommendation of a trusted advisor and brother in Christ.
5. There is nothing “worldly” about having financial goals, knowing your financial needs, and advocating for yourself. If you don’t want to seem worldly, ask God to make you into a generous person and then look for every opportunity to sacrificially serve others. A generous heart is typically easy to detect in a person.
If at all possible, have secular professional experience before/or concurrent to ministry jobs (especially early in your career). This gives perspective on reasonable compensation practices and help you avoid getting into a bad situation. I’ve seen smaller congregations offer some weird compensation “benefits” in an attempt to justify poor planning and bad compensation policies and practices. Additionally, this provides a skill set and professional background helpful to find auxiliary sources of income if you decide to accept a pastorate that doesn’t meet your family’s financial needs.
GREAT questions. At age 59 and having received a paycheck from a church since age 16, I hear these questions LOUD AND CLEAR, as I have asked them all (and more) myself. I’ll throw in my thoughts.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry? Proverbs 3:5-6, Ephesians 2:10 Psalm 37:23 in almost 44 years I have been asked to serve in several churches. All were unsolicited invitations for service, except for one time. That particular time our church “downsized” and I was asked to resign (with a 6 month severance and $15,000 love offering!) Because I was a dad and husband and sole provider, I felt the immediate need to find employment, which was a LEGITIMATE need. I emailed my resume via PDF to every D.O.M. in 3 states! I only received one legitimate response to those efforts. Ultimately, a church initiated contact with me from a state I had NEVER considered serving in (NC!) and a position I was not looking for, but was qualified for. So my final answer: I believe God can be honored either way! And I don’t think I am taking the chicken way out of answering! I truly believe that the steps of a good man are ordered, directed, prepared, in advance, for God’s folks. It is a matter of walking closely in fellowship with Him, listening for that still small voice of truth. God does not want to play games with us. He simply wants obedience. In order to be obedient, we must know what He wants or says. Walk daily in His word, will, and fellowship. For me, it all worked out.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team? Proverbs 16:16, 24:3 ONE question? Bummer. I have lots of them. Maybe it is: What is it about this congregation that I will learn about in the first five years that this search team could tell me now? Or maybe it is: which staff, deacon, or other significant leaders will immediately cause me the most difficulty, and why? Maybe it would be: What would the last three pastors say about your church if they were totally honest?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church? Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5-6, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31, Proverbs 11:2 Not in agreement? Then you are making a 1/2 decision. You say YES and she says ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? You are not dragging me off to that god-forsaken hole. What man in his right mind would say, LOOK HERE WOMAN, I am the MAN! You should OBEY ME!!!!!!!! SUBMIT or SIN!!!!!! (ok, a slight over exaggeration!) So, do I know fellow ministers who went to a church where the wife was a nay-sayer, and it all worked out ok? Yes. Do I know similar stories where it didn’t work out OK? YES. This is a most significant question, and I am glad it made the top 5! For me and my bride of 37 years, we have been in 7 churches together. We moved 4 times. Every move cost us a net loss in our family wealth (house sales, storage units, income loss, etc) Money could have been a HUGE issue for marriage contention, but has not been so far. We have gone from smaller church to bigger church…to smaller church…to city church….to RURAL church. Moved with kids! Was on staff during one significant split (I am talking down the middle!) Bottom line, I have made incredible friends over the years, had the privilege to see the Lord do VERY MUCH, but have also seen church folks act unregenerate, hateful, cruel, violent, manipulative, and more. I have even been slapped by a Sr. Adult woman once! (at the church where I am now!!!) All that to say this: both halves need to be in agreement when you accept a place of service. Now, for me and my wife, here is how it has worked. When I sense a call to a congregation, my wife almost always has said, “If the Lord leads you, I will follow.” But fellas, If she even so much as pauses in her response in her willingness to follow, I must pause as well. Here’s why. I thrive on change, adventure, challenge. She finds peace in stability, nestling, routine. So when I pull us up and move her 5 hours in this direction or 7 hours in that direction, as her mom ages and as our kids have our grandkids way over there, we had better be on the same page when we make a move.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? Proverbs 3:5-6, Ephesians 2:10 Psalm 37:23 (repeat) I think my answer is NO. What does a “mistake” look like? Is it a mistake when you find out things about the church after you arrive? Does it mean that you and your wife were in agreement in accepting the position, only to be disappointed after a month…year? Do we too often equate “mistake” with lack of numerical growth? Or with lack of financial support? Or with challenging situations? Or with opposition from the community? Or maybe the search team LIED to you about the church, and you walk into something that you NEVER would have accepted if they had been honest. I know this sounds preachy, but did God lead you there? Does God have permission to send you to a hard place? DOES HE? I can ask this question because I have unknowingly gone to the HARD PLACE. We are way too American in our theology and not biblical enough. God calls His children to HARD THINGS. (Remember Jesus?) Do you give Him permission to crush you? Does a native from a village have permission to kill you with spears and arrows? Or Persecute you, Revile you, and say all manner of evil against you, falsely? (that’s in the bible!) Speaking of the Bible, go back and read the New Testament. Let it sink in. Jesus was called to a HARD PLACE, so was Peter, James, John and the rest of those fellas, and others! God’s glory and His Gospel is worth discomfort, struggle, and pain in this life. Or maybe you are more of a Joel Osteen kinda guy. Good luck with that. I have not been on staff at a perfect church. There are no perfect pastors, staff, secretaries, treasurers, elders, deacons, Sunday School teacher, custodinans, etc. We are ALL in process. Some pastors/staff make lots of money. MOST DON’T. Maybe God wants to use you in a hard place to refine YOU, or for you to, with the Spirit’s Fruit, redesign the DNA of a sorry congregation. Who knows? GOD. Was HIS CALL A MISTAKE? Theology matters.
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? Deuteronomy 5:4 1 Corinthians 9:9, 1 Timothy 5:18 I am FULLY AWARE that churches EVERYWHERE want a FULL TIME PASTOR/STAFF but do not pay enough to make that happen. When I was newly married, my wife and I made about the same amount of money in our respective jobs (which was peanuts, by the way). Like many of you, I have always been skittish about talking PAY with a search team. For me, if I was still in the seeking stage with a church, I would ask this question; “Will the church provide for my family enough income and benefits to allow me to be the sole provider of my family and live at a standard similar to the people in the congregation (or the deacons)”. Yes, I learned that the hard way. Some one at the church should say; what kind of house can our staff afford to pay for on this salary? What medical burdens are we asking them to carry? Are we assuming his wife will work? Are we helping at all with his retirement? Churches are ignorant on much of this. They just say, “Here is $45,000!” GO FOR IT. Whittle out HEALTH INS (this is a biggie fellas!) retirement (begin NOW. Do not wait) housing costs (this jumped like KRAZY when I moved from Montgomery AL to Asheville NC, with no salary increase. Yup, bottom line, less income) Car Payment? Do they expect you to be at every local sporting event? (are they buying your entrance?) Do they expect you to join civic groups, or go to Chamber of Commerce luncheons? ($$) Do they provide mileage, or expect you to “claim that on your taxes?” (ALWAYS better to let the church reimburse, IMHO) Do your homework! Check the real estate market. The schools. The FLOOD PLAINS. The crime rate. We bought a house in Asheville area and realized our next door neighbor was a sex offender. He was cool, we got along well, but my wife FLIPPED OUT when we happen to pull up that info a year after we lived in the house. (that means, half of me just flipped out! See question #3) .
Other good questions: How do I know when it is time for me to LEAVE a church? How can I be a great pastor/ mentor/ coach/encourager to hired staff? How can I recognize my leadership weaknesses and surround myself with folks to help? How can I stay humble and be the pastor? How can I make sure I am making DISCIPLES and not just good, moral churchmen? OK, I have spend my entire Wednesday Morning pouring over this, and loved every minute. God bless you all as you seek to be obedient to the King of the Universe.
Some great answers above. Some thoughts below.
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
If your wife is not on board at the end of the day, you should never go. But, I think there is much more to consider here in making sure you are working together as a team and ensuring that you are following God’s lead. I have worked with many young pastors on this issue and the search process should be an opportunity to grow spiritually for you and your wife, as well as growing closer together as partners.
It is enormously stressful for wive’s to feel as though they have the power to stop you from going somewhere and this can cause a lack of communication and fear. They also may be too comfortable in the sense that if they get a bad vibe, they can jump to the conclusion that a place is not right. Before you even search for a church, commit to sharing honestly about everything and that you will be making this decision together. And MEN… commit that you will lead in this, and you will take responsibility for the decision. If this is done correctly, your spouse will never feel as though she was responsible for you not taking a position. Wives should never feel that burden. If there are doubts from your wife, slow the process and prayerfully evaluate the concern. But, as many have said before, if your wife is not on board, the answer is always… don’t go. But, you need to have real maturity, intimacy, and trust in your marriage before you even begin to search, and you need to bear the burden for the decision.
Think about this, sometimes when we say to our wives, “if you’re not feeling it, then we won’t go”. It sounds like we are being loving, but in reality, we are thoughtlessly putting the burden of the decision on them. A burden that they don’t want, and one that hurts them to bear. Make the decision together, but do so in a way that you are always the burden bearer. You should never come to a decision where you later tell others “we looked at this church that seemed like a great opportunity, but my wife wasn’t sure, so we didn’t go.” You have no idea how many times I have heard that said proudly with the man thinking he was wise. The reality is, his wife still may feel the burden of that decision, and she shouldn’t have to. This requires thoughtful and patient communication, and the man willing to bear the burden.
This is tough stuff, but if done well, can strengthen your marriage.
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
– ask how they arrived at their numbers
– make sure you have done your research and both understand how their package works and that you have the correct expectations
– If the numbers are close, prayerfully consider taking what they offer. You don’t want to cause any issue over a couple thousand dollars.
– I would be clear on how future raises or merit increases work. Who makes those decisions and when do they consider these things.
– Ask if there are bonuses or Christmas gifts that are given each year. Often times this can be quite significant
– If there is an interim pastor, I would consider talking with them first to get a feel for his opinion and how the church might respond to a request for more money
– But after all of that if they are still off, humbly ask if the church is ok with you getting a part time job on the side because the amount isn’t quite up to what you believe you can live on in your current life stage. This is the softest way to bring up a gap in what you need and what they are offering. They may offer to try and increase the package so that you don’t have to work extra or they may say that they are as high as they are going to go. Either way, you know, and you do not stand the risk of insulting an offer that they may feel is quite generous and thoughtfully arrived at.
1. As far as the first question, I believe it is both appropriate and God honoring to send out one’s resume. If He is in it, then things will move forward, if not then the resume is placed in file 13.
2. I try to ask the search team to be specific about what they both enjoyed and did not enjoy about their previous pastor’s ministry approach.
3. If my wife and I are not in agreement, then we choose to not accept the call to that church. This has happened a couple of times, and I believe that God used her to speak His desires.
4. In hindsight, there was a particular church where I went, and then regretted accepting the call about a month later. There were more hidden issues than I can name that the search committee was either blind to, or unwilling to share with me. After that, I usually contact at least a couple of area churches and ask them about the church’s history and reputation in the community.
5. Be honest with the committee. No one in any other profession would accept a job, and plan on living below the poverty level. Search committees will go a long way in being up front about the package they are offering. If they are not, it may be a sign that they don’t know, or are ashamed of it.
1. Send out resumes and build a network of ministry contacts, but do so with integrity and without hidden agendas. An abundance of Pastor/ministry friends is a constant blessing.
2. I would ask the committee, in their opinion, how do they measure ministry success and what would a successful ministry look like to them after 1 year, 5 years, 10.
3. Don’t go
4. God is sovereign over our mistakes. I haven’t experienced this personally but have known an intimate friend who gave all that he had at the church he went to by mistake. He and the church benefited from his time of ministry there, though it was only a couple of years.
5. If you can’t take care of your family you can’t take care of a church. Financial pressure cannot be fully avoided, but where you find constant financial burden you often find burnout, depression, resentment and many times moral failure.
These are wonderful questions and there are some great responses that have already been given. For what it’s worth, here are my replies.
1. I see no problem at all in sending out resumes as long as you remember that God calls Pastors, not Churches. The Church prayerfully is to recognize the call on a man’s life and seek the Lord’s will as to who it is He has for them, but it’s up to us to not seek great things for ourselves but in faith and humility wait on the Lord for confirmation as to where and His timing as to when. It’s easy to send resumes to churches that meet our ideas concerning the right salary, congregation size, and geographical location but the Lord may not have the same plans for you so send out resumes, but go beyond what the eye can see to what faith ultimately lays hold of.
2. This question may not be a one size fits all questions, but if I was being questioned to take a pastorate in a Church that was older and established I would definitely ask this. How much does your Church look like the community of today as opposed to when it was started X amount of years ago? Are you willing to change and even let go of some traditions if it means reaching this community for Christ? What are the sacred calves in the church that are off limits in your opinion? These types of questions will save you much frustration going in if you know what type of battles you may be facing to grow a church.
3. First, listen to her. We as Pastors often have lots to say when we would be better served to listen more. Your wife is your number one helper and support and it is vital she stands with you. Listen to her reasons and concerns. Is there any basis and truth to them? If not, you won’t win with a strong handed approach but with a gentle, loving confidence that God will supply your needs and change her heart. We must start with ministry in our homes and lead well there.
4. I hold the record for the shortest pastorate in history… One day. I accepted a call to a little country church that I was supplying for. They kept on insisting I take the position and finally I gave in but immediately knew it was not where God wanted me (I knew that to begin with.) I had to go back to them and step down and step away so they could move forward to find God’s man. Do not ever make that decision until you are confident that it is where God wants you. This may sound harsh, but if you are not in the place where God wants you, and you are simply staying to be “employed” you are not bringing God glory, nor pouring into your people as they need. Step aside for their good and yours. God can’t give us what He wants if we won’t let go of what we want.
5. More often than not the salary package is low. Don’t be ashamed to have a reasonable figure in mind. If the Church cannot financially support you then you will succumb to the stress and pressure of working countless hours for not enough to survive. This will lead to bitterness and burnout. Involve a third party if necessary, but the Church has to understand that a Pastors salary has many dynamics. If your package is 50K that doesn’t mean you make 50K. Help them to see a clear breakdown. Insurance, retirement, FICA, housing, expenses, salary, etc. Once they understand all that goes into it, then you can compare apples to apples. Also, don’t be ashamed to ask for a raise if needed and deserved. Cost of living alone necessitates at least that much.
May not differ from above…
1. I have sent out resumes, but all of my ministry positions have came through the seminary resume referral. Especially when starting out, it lends credibility.
2. Ask for a copy of the Constitution, and personnel policies. Also ask each member of the search committee to describe the perfect pastor for their church. That can be enlightening.
3 If your spouse is not in agreement, never go. Period.
4 Thankfully I have not. I have wished I knew their personnel policies beforehand and that I could negotiate those policies.
5.Check the LifeWay compensation study, if the package is low, show them the study. Make sure they hear your heart regarding your family and finances
Hello Chuck,
Please find below my answers to your students’ questions.
Be willing to get to know people in churches around you, local or distant; attend convention-type events, primarily in your own denomination (if you are accredited by a denomination) and become known. Be willing to accept invitations to preach or teach small numbers as well as large, and get yourself known. Have resumes to hand and trust God for introductions to pastoral or other ministry employment opportunities in line with your call.
Why exactly have you chosen to enter into discussion with me? (Precisely – not vaguely – not just to see how it goes and “how the Lord leads”. Ensure they too are prayerful and well-prepared in their search.)
If your spouse is not in agreement, do your very best to find out what is their concern; if agreement cannot be freely reached, do not accept the call.
Mistake(s) in my experience are where I have seen potential but have not seen the unwillingness to transition for the benefit of change amongst key (disproportinately influential) leaders in the organisation. Unmatched vision is tough to handle and a key discourager.
Salary is important. Be realistic in expectations given the size of the church, the size of the challenge and your need to support your family, but don’t sacrifice unnecessarily if the church is “prudent” or “keeping the pastor humble”. Sensible people reach sensible agreements in God’s grace
Hope these notes help.
1. Don’t send out resumes, I don’t need the competition… Seriously though, expect to send out a couple hundred.
2. What % of the congregation is actually interested in actually following Jesus rather than just coming to church. Then, divide their answer in half; and it’s probably less than that.
3. Happy wife, happy life. Your spouse is probably spiritually sensitive to things that you are not. Ask them to tell you honestly why and to be brutally honest.
4. Twice. Ask question from #2 above. Listen to your spouse. Read everything available on discipleship and have a well developed, cradle to grave, discipleship plan. Make sure the church is interested in following a well developed discipleship plan. (If you don’t have one, keep going to school until you do, or take an associate pastor job under a pastor who does and learn). Don’t take an associate pastor job under a pastor who does not have a well developed discipleship plan.
5. Don’t take a job that can’t pay reasonable bills unless God undeniably asks you too. Don’t take a job that would require you to put your children (or future children) on welfare.
If pastors would stop taking such low salaries, then churches would stop paying such low salaries. Churches that can’t pay a reasonable salary probably need to die. That’s harsh, but their presence in the community is probably stopping revival from happening. Therefore, don’t take a job (and low salary) at a dying church unless they are willing to change everything.
It would honor God more for you to take a well-paying secular job and use the money to plant a church rather than go to work for a dying church just to get to be paid to be a pastor.
And get a master of divinity in discipleship ministries first.
Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
Yes. This is part of the process of finding a place of ministry and you need to trust that God is in the process.
What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
From my first call to my second I learned to follow up on answers and statements more. For example, the church says that they are a family that loves each other. Ask, can you give some examples of how that is lived out? Get details because sometimes who the church thinks they are and who they really are do not match.
What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
I would say that you pray and discuss this with your spouse. Why does your spouse not agree? Why do you think God is calling you there? In the end, if you are not in agreement, don’t accept. Your spouse being in this together with you is key to ministry success.
Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?
I have not made a mistake but my first call was to a church that was not healthy. When I moved to my next church I asked A LOT more questions to make sure that the church and I were a good match with each other.
The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
Be honest and talk to the church about it. It is better to discuss this on the front end then accept the call and come to resent the church for it.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry? God opens and closes the door. Surely He can accomplish that through several means including sending resumes. God has also given you the guidance of the Holy Spirit to discern His will in the process.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team? Do you have any unresolved issues or conflict that you expect the incoming Pastor to address upon his arrival?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church? This is a deeper question than it appears. First, you must consider whether your spouse is in support of your ministry in general. If not, then the location is irrelevant until you address this core issue. Second, you might need to ask her about any reservations that she senses – perhaps she has her eyes more open than you. Third, you should honestly seeks God regarding the timing of the move. Forth, if you are fully convinced that God is leading you, you may have to lovingly and graciously make the decision to be obedient. This may involve making concessions that would help her with any reservations. Fifth, should you move forward without her full support, you must invest significant energy and devotion to your marriage to guard it from harm.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? Yes. I felt I just needed to “get out” of a difficult context. I would do two things differently: [1] Wait more patiently on the Lord, [2] Not leave because of anything other than God’s leadership to do so.
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? I have been through this at a former church. And I was concerned about the perception of being greedy. The issue for me was the loss of health insurance for my family. I called the search team chair and graciously told him that I would have to withdraw – but I wanted to explain why. I walked him through my conviction that it was my responsibility to care for my family and that I would not be able to do that without them covering the additional cost of insurance. We walked through the full “package” and I shared my honest feedback. In the end, he understood my concerns and went back to discuss with the church. After he explained it to them, they choose cover those costs and I accepted the call.
1. Personal conviction that matches my personality, but I’me NOT for a blind blanketing of associations and churches with resumes. God knows where I am, and as I walk in the Spirit he guides. As a result I’ve had great confidence in the difficult seasons of ministry because I remembered how the hand of God worked extraordinarily to bring me there, the confirmations, “chance” encounters, etc. Too many stories to tell here. But if one has a burden for a particular city or place, there is technology now to quickly discover the needs in that area. And if God gives you peace, send a resume to fill that need to which you already sensed a call.
3 This also relates to #1. If my wife doesn’t have a peace and she is walking with God, that’s a major red flag!! Though she has said on one occasion, “I don’t have clarity, but I trust you and I’m with you 100 percent.” If she’s not at a place where she is walking closely with Jesus and you, make NO move until you help her to a better place spiritually!
1. I have always been hesitant to send resumes out in bulk, and the times I did I saw little to no response. In every church that I have become the pastor, someone recommended me to that church.
2. In your opinion, what are this church’s greatest strength and most significant weaknesses?
3. If my spouse is not in agreement, I will NOT move forward.
4. Yes. I made a move because I was unwilling to address a problem in the church head-on. At the time I believed that the leadership wasn’t following me, when in reality, because of pride I had let the enemy get between me and some dear friends and co-workers in the kingdom. I moved to a larger church that in reality was a dying church. I spent the next ten years banging my head against the wall with little success. God has used my failures to make me a better pastor.
5. For me, dealing with salary is always one of the difficult issues to address. Don’t be greedy, but let them know the needs of your family. When I have believed that God was calling me to go, I have never allowed the money by my deciding factor.
1. Both. But I would advise you to get someone to look at your resume and critique it. I was at a church for 5 and a half years. The last year there, I started sending out resumes, due to not being able to move forward with leaders who were very difficult. I didn’t critique my resume well, nor did I put a picture on it. It took 2 years before I was put by God at another place of service. That wait can be excruciating. There are a lot of pastors out there: seminary grads, men without a call or seeking call (current pastors), and retired ministers. The pool, to be frank, is huge. Try not to get discouraged if a call doesn’t materialize within a year of you starting to look. Pray to God. Trust Him. Put together a strong, truthful resume with your picture on it.
2. Tell me about the last 3 pastors and the circumstances of their leaving (Word it differently, but you need to know what you’re stepping into. Many SBC churches are running off pastors every 2-3 years over little to nothing. Many of those churches have nominal Christians in leadership positions and desire not in the slightest for Christ. In other words, “it’s all about them.”). You need to understand the culture of what you’re stepping into and get with people who will tell you the truth, not just rosy words of optimism. I’m not saying, “Be cynical,” but some churches are very toxic places. Other churches are considerably more healthy and treat their pastors fairly decently.
3. This, IMO, is a really tough question. Jesus, I think, taught that, sometimes, family members may not support us in what we’re trying to do. I think a man should very listen very closely to his wife. Should he accept the call if she’s not in agreement? Really hard question. I would say, “Possibly still (accept it).” But sometimes, a wife can see things a husband can’t.
4. I am serving my second church at this point. At my first ministry assignment, I didn’t research the church very well. They had pressured 3 of the last 4 pastors out. They are controlled by a few key families. The size of the church is 50-60 ppl in worship attendance on Sunday mornings. At many small churches, the pastor is viewed and treated as a hireling. Meaning, “You preach and visit and we’ll make the decisions. We’ll also critique you when we feel like it.” Pastors should be allowed to lead some in the framework of team leadership. If I had known how the church had been (my first assignment), I don’t know that I would have gone. But, too, I have a pastor friend, in Louisiana, who said he felt God leading him to a difficult ministry location one time. He’s in his 50s now and told me he’s in the best church he’s ever been at. But in the past, he had 1-2 difficult churches. Sometimes, we’re put in tough, hard places with cultures that have unregenerate Christians in leadership positions. I’m just being as real and honest as I can be. I asked my friend about difficult churches. He told me the matter is not up to us, but God. All of us would like to be at places where we’re taken care of and treated fairly well (Some are at places like this.) But truth is: Some pastors, in America, will labor in churches that have had badly unhealthy cultures in the past. They will have to try, with God’s help and power, to change this over time if they’re there.
5. A few years ago, I was discussing this with a pastor friend of mine. He said something very true and very helpful, “They (the church you serve) will expect you to live off of what they pay you.” Now that’s seem like a “Duh statement,” meaning I already knew that. But my friend was right. The church you serve will want you to make it work, regardless of how low their salary might be. You have to have enough to pay your bills and in this day and age, it takes a lot to live. The economy, over the last 10 years, has gotten a little weaker. Many churches don’t take care of their pastor like they ought to and will not care (despite their words) if you and your family do without. They, somehow or another, have come to believe that pastors are supposed to “take a vow of poverty” and they don’t mind at all if their pastor has to struggle to make ends meet. If the salary is low, I’d ask to be bi-vocational. I’d also like how many hours they expect you to put in. I’d get this all this in writing even if they balked at it. It’s not a contract, but just an agreement on paper so if there is disagreement down the road, you can point to the call in writing and say, “This is what we said.” if their salary is low and they won’t let you work, then I wouldn’t go unless my wife had a job with a good salary. You need to take care of your family and many churches don’t mind paying a pastor very, very little. My current church has a fairly good approach. Their salary is okay, but they also allow me to work a little, on the side, each week. Between health insurance, mechanic bills, dental and eye care bills, and just many other financial matters, again, it takes a lot to live. At one church I interviewed at, the salary was low. $34,000 a year plus a small home. I have a wife and kids. I asked to work a little bit each week and one committee member, more or less, said that pastoring was a 24/7 job. I think she didn’t want me to do anything else. But at the end of the day, when you’re staring at a mechanic bill you can’t pay, because you don’t have the money, where is that church member who lectures you about trusting God? He or she is not there. Just again being honest here. I did not go to that church. I felt it was unreasonable for the lady to tell me not to do anything else (like a weekly part-time job) based on the salary they offered. I know we’re not in the ministry to make a big salary. I know we’re to trust God. But you have to be straightforward with an interview committee. If they want to make it work, they will be flexible and look for ways to help their pastor get his income up enough so he can pay his bills for the most part.
1.)Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
I always sent a resume. I usually sent it through the referral system of the state convention. I also sent it to other Pastor friends and asked them to pray about sending it to churches they knew were open.
2.)What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
May I speak with your last Pastor?
3.)What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
You do not do anything until she senses God’s leading. If she doesn’t sense God’s leading then you are divided and she will always resent you making her leave her friends.
4.)Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church?
Yes!! It ended after 2 1/2 years with me being voted out. It has been very hard on me and my family.
If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? I would slow down and wait on God. I tried to push something that I shouldn’t have.
5.)The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? If you sense God leading to that ministry tell the committee that you are coming. However, then tell them you will have to find a part-time job to make ends meet. They will then be more willing to meet your needs because they do not want it known they do not have the means to support your family.
1. Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?
YES. My first ministry position I applied all over the place but I ultimately landed at my first pastorate because of a Director of Mission who knew me (also a Southern Baptist Minister) and watched me grow up recommended me. He turned in my resume without my knowing to the church and let me know afterwards. I was there 3 years when a Director of Mission recommended me at a church in my home town (same association as where I was currently serving). The Lord moved us there for 6.5 years and I recently (2 months ago) moved 4 hours West to where I currently serve because a Director of Mission recommended me to that church (we knew each other from my serving at the state convention in various positions). Ultimately, in ministry as in life, relationships matter. There is nothing wrong with applying at many different positions but having an advocate for you at a church is critical. Build relationships. If you are wanting to become a pastor start SERVING in your local church. Teach Sunday school. Youth. Work VBS. Show up at church work days. Offer to represent your church at associational meetings. Build relationships, don’t manipulate people, but build genuine relationships. The Lord will honor your heart. (I am now in Garden City KS, which is SouthWest Kansas but grew in in South Central Kansas. All 3 of my churches have been here in Kansas.)
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?
As I have grown more confident in my ministry I have also gotten more bold. My previous church loved me and I loved them. I wasn’t looking at moving when the phone call came asking for my resume, so I grilled my current church pretty hard. I was interviewing them as much as they were interviewing me because I didn’t have to leave, and didn’t particularly want to leave. I honestly can’t answer this because I asked them a LOT of questions. Two months into my new ministry here I felt like I came in with my eyes open to the problems (and there are problems).
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?
Don’t go. My wife often knew before I did if we were going to be moving somewhere. I would be on the fence about a potential move and she would be ready. Or I would be entertaining a church position and she would say “No, I don’t feel that is right for us.” Every time she has been spot on. Trust your partner’s judgment. If you are not in agreement… DO.NOT.GO. Make sure your wife is by your side throughout the interview process.
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?
Thankfully the Lord has protected me from this mistake. (Often because of my wife.)
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?
Be honest and upfront. At my second church I was promised $7,000 in housing and was assuming that was part of my pay package, when they were viewing it as what I would need to report to the IRS at rent for the parsonage! (I had a salary of $32,000 and a housing allowance of $7,000.) Not having that $7,000 would have been a huge financial blow to us (I was making $40,000 at the church I was leaving so I was already taking a slight pay cut). I was 2 weeks into the church when this miscommunication was discovered and so I had to go talk to them. It was awkward but they understood my confusion and agreed to pay the $7,000. I should have negotiated salary with them but I did not out of fear. I was wrong for that.
At my new church we had to negotiate a moving allowance, to help pay rent (no parsonage here) for the first month and a security deposit, plus moving expenses. They weren’t originally offering that but did agree after we asked and explained why we need it. There were no hard feelings. Often times churches have room in their budget for negotiating. I have called up Director of Missions also and spoken with them and they have given me good advice on these issues. Seek council. Ask questions. Don’t be afraid to negotiate.
My pleasure, Dr. Lawless, hope it helps.
1.Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry? I have witnessed God’s provision of vocational ministry with both, by sending out my resume and being called as a pastor, and by having an organization’s leader witness my “expertise” and solicit my gifting, as a director. The way I see it, if it’s not meant to be, God will shut the door on the resume, but that should not discourage you from sending resumes out.
2. What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team? I was very thorough, but I had been in the “rodeo” before. In my current situation as revitalization pastor, I was doing all in my power to not get the position and asked the most difficult questions (why was the church failing, did the leadership take responsibility, etc). I’m glad that I did. If I had one: what is the congregation’s main/major stronghold?
3. What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church? Wow. I would say, “Do not take it.” For me, my wife is my better half, we are one and she provides confirmation to my calling. As I say to church planters, “If you’re wife is not with you, you are, unfortunately, not called to church plant.”
4. Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake? Yes. I was asked to serve as a discipleship/evangelism pastor. It was a mistake (even though it “sort of” work out for good). I was so excited about being in “ministry” that I didn’t ask questions and worked under a dictatorial and set-in-his-ways senior pastor, who would not allow innovation into a dying church. I think question #2 answers this question—ask questions!!
5. The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do? If it is a matter of calling, conviction, and confirmation—take the position. Money should not be an object and God will see your obedient heart. But, if you’re not able to make payments, support your family, and meet other financial obligations, you may need to become bi-vocational—but make that known, prior to accepting the call. I took on a dying church of 25, which could only promise 2 years of low-to-mediocre pay, which was to come from the church building fund—fortunately, the church never had to use that funding. We began to grow immediately.
——Matt Fretwell
“Should I send out resumes or just trust God to provide a place of ministry?”
Both… I recommend not putting limitations around ways in which God may call you to a particular ministry assignment. If through an online staffing organization or through a friend of a friend, God can call you to wherever He wants you to be. In fact, He may even give you a choice in the matter. Make sure you’re not in sin, and pursue His direction one step at a time.
“What ONE question do you wish you had asked a pastor search team?”
Where does the church stand with regard to:
a. allowing homosexuals to serve in various ministry roles
b. permitting/encouraging the consumption of alcohol at various functions inside and outside the church
“What do I do if my spouse is not in agreement with me about God’s call to a particular place or church?”
Wait for God to change her heart… or for Him to change yours. As frustrating as it may be, the husband and wife should be in agreement with next steps in vocational ministry. To sacrifice peace in the home for any personal preference reeks of selfishness, not selflessness. Be patient, wait on God and trust that He will guide you both to His desired place of ministry for you AND your entire family.
“Have you ever made a mistake in accepting a call to a particular church? If so, what would you do differently to avoid that kind of mistake?”
I have not made a mistake in accepting a call, but I do believe God called me to some previous ministry assignments for the sake of teaching me things to do and NOT to do in future ministry roles. The biggest lesson I’ve learned is the importance of doing thorough research into the background of church leaders and church policies.
Find out what the local association and other area churches think about or know about the prospective church. Find out how others wound up there and why they left previous assignments. There may be some skeletons in the closet that would either deter you from accepting a call or at least better prepare you for future “hard discussions.”
The unpleasant surprises I discovered left my wife and me extremely uncomfortable, and while these may not have deterred us from accepting the call, it certainly would have given me a better idea of how to navigate these issues.
“The salary package seems low to me, but I don’t want to seem greedy or worldly. What do I do?”
Andy Stanley would call this a “rich people problem.” There’s line between low (a little less Starbucks cash) and unacceptably low (starving your kids). Prayerfully discern which is the case, and if it just means you have to tighten up your family expenses a bit, then take it as a challenge from God to trust Him more, and a blessing that God would entrust you with this task.